4 financial pros talk love, money, & stewardship

By Katie Ginn

For this year’s Money & Stewardship Issue, MCL Editor Katie Ginn interviewed four financial professionals: husband-and-wife team Marray and TK Harris, and stepdad/stepdaughter Jeff Miley and Kayla Soukup of Raymond James in Jackson. Ironically, none of them started their career in the financial realm. The ladies come from educational backgrounds, the men from engineering! But each has found blessings working with clients and with each other. Read on for some good financial and spiritual wisdom – some of it learned the hard way.

Katie Ginn: How did each of you get into the financial field?

Marray and TK Harris on their wedding day (1)

Marray (left) and TK Harris on their wedding day eight years ago

Marray Harris: Eight years ago, TK and I got married. I was an engineer at Entergy. She was an educational consultant. She had a lot of student-loan debt (and) we wanted to get out of that fast.

I told my friend I was looking for some extra ways to make money … He told me about the financial services arena. I said, ‘I don’t know, I’m an introvert …’ And he said, ‘But you like helping people.’ (So) I got my licenses.

TK Harris: That student-loan debt was about $190,000-something. It tested our marriage. (But) today we are debt-free. With what we share with our clients, we wanted to make sure we were models. So that means not having that student loan debt, not having a mortgage, not having car notes, and making sure we are saving well, setting our children up well, and making sure we’re ready for retirement.

KG: How long did it take y’all to get debt-free on everything?

MH: About seven years. We didn’t take as many trips, didn’t go out to eat as much. We basically lived off of my paycheck, and her paycheck paid down the loans.

Kayla Soukup: I taught middle school for nine years. I knew Jeff was looking for someone to be his succession plan. So there was about two years where all of us, me and Jeff and Mom, prayed about finding someone to fill that role, and I really thought it was going to be one of my good friends. And then, when that didn’t work out, and as I got to a place where I felt like I was called to do something different, it just seemed like an open door (and) a blessing.

Jeff Miley: My background and degree is in petroleum engineering. I graduated in a year where the oil industry was not doing well. I spent three years working offshore with the intent of staying in the industry, but it never really improved throughout the mid-’80s.

A friend of mine that worked for a (financial) firm here in Jackson said hey, come interview, maybe you can pass the test. Well, thirty-eight years later, I’m still in the business.

Throughout my career, I wasn’t always walking step in step with the Lord. I had one foot in church and one foot out of the church. But over the course of the years, with the help of a former partner that I had here … He was just a really instrumental part of my journey.

And any success I have had in the last 15 years is a result of my wife (Pam’s) prayers for me. Every day, I have the privilege to know I have been prayed for.

KG: What other ways has being in this industry grown your faith?

From left: Ivey and Kayla Soukup with their mom, Pam Miley, and stepdad, Jeff Miley, on the Mileys’ wedding day. Kayla now works for Jeff at Raymond James

JM: We don’t just ‘sell investments.’ We walk clients through birth, death, marriage, divorce. There’s typically money involved … but it gives us a chance to serve people in a different way. There are clients that have helped me grow, invested in me, and (vice versa).

And (even) without having a Christian label on your lapel, people kind of know how you are, or (they) inquire about your faith, when you treat them a certain way. For me, it’s a platform to share the gospel, when the opportunity presents itself.

KS: Right after I got licensed, I started to sit in meetings with Jeff. And within the first two months, two clients passed away … and in these meetings, the widows were crying, and they were thanking Jeff, and they were putting all their hope and trust in him … And I’m crying.

But Jeff was so steady and so strong and was such a rock for these people. (That) made me see that there are opportunities in this job to serve people well when they really need someone.

TKH: I’m continually praying for people to be set free spiritually. It’s hard to feel free spiritually when you’re bound by finances. As we’ve continued to work in this business, we’ve been able to develop more relationships where we can pray with people, and when that time is right, also share the good news.

MH: I’ve spent a lot of time having to deal with hard issues that lend themselves to heartfelt conversations. And it’s just been a blessing to me, because I’m like, ‘Lord, You didn’t have to put me in this position.’ Even TK and I telling people about us getting out of debt – the hope that I’ve been able to see in people’s faces.

We don’t work with a lot of high-end investors from the beginning. We’re kind of grassroots. And some of the people that we’ve talked to, they’ve never considered investing. But when I’ve been able to educate people and instill hope in a long-term future, I’ve seen how much of a blessing that is. Not necessarily hope in the money, but it’s a biblical principle: If you put seed in the ground, you’ll reap if you’re patient.

KG: What’s the biggest thing you have learned about people through working in the financial realm?

MH: I used to hear one of my mentors say, ‘Money decisions aren’t head decisions, they’re heart decisions.’ I’ve seen that. People will do the things they want and then use logic to justify those decisions.

If (someone’s) car breaks down and they need a new one, instead of getting a reasonably priced car, they get a $40,000-$50,000 car and say, ‘I had to get this car because my car broke down.’ I try to challenge people not to necessarily follow their heart in terms of what they deserve. That’s a thing I hear a lot: ‘I deserve this.’

I tell them, ‘But do you deserve that more than peace?’ Go after peace first. Be patient and wait for the other stuff.

TKH: I thought I had to have patience having four kids, but I’ve learned (I have to have more) in this business, because every client is different. So I also have to put my educator hat on. I have to meet people where they are, and I have to have some grace (because) they might not move exactly as we’re recommending in the moment.

KS: One thing I’ve learned about people over the past two years is that the majority of people do not walk into this office with a lot of education on their finances. … Coming from education myself, there is such a lack. That’s where I feel emboldened and passionate. I really want to share more to young adults. They should be teaching this in high school. They should know about investing in middle school.

JM: What I’ve learned is, people still want a personal relationship. It’s still a people business. Information is everywhere. But I believe every person needs an advisor or an advocate to help them with their finances.

The other thing I would say is, most people don’t understand the level of risk they’re taking. We’ve bought into this idea that the stock market has always been good, therefore it’s always going to be good. And it will be, until it isn’t.

KG: How many of you are savers? Kayla, you’re the only one not raising your hand. Are you the spender?

KS: I have been the perfect consumer my entire life. (Recently) I have really looked at what that has cost me over the last 15 years. When I was 24, I was getting my lashes and nails done. If I had taken that $170 (a month) for my first six years of working, and invested that, I asked AI what I would have today, and it kicked out $30,000.

In another 30 years, do y’all know what that would be? Half a million dollars. For nails and eyelashes for six years. So I am slowly transitioning (from spender to saver).

KG: Jeff’s reaching for the mic … Do you have additional information about these lashes and nails? (laughs)

JM: No, not about her. But I am a saver. And what I tell many of my clients is, I have zero control over the stock market; I have zero control over interest rates; what I do have control over is how much I save each month, period.

KG: Harrises, I would love to know how the past six years of working together has strengthened your marriage.

MH: There’s the working on the business side, but there’s also working on the personal side, to kind of be the test (case). I’ve always been kind of miserly, I’ve been told by my parents. Initially, TK probably didn’t appreciate all the vigor I put behind (paying off the student loan debt). But over time … the roles reversed. I was like, ‘We can slow down,’ and she was like, ‘No!’ We both saw the value of being debt-free.

TKH: It has been a challenge at times. So I tell people, man, my student loans almost caused us to get a divorce! That’s not a good thing. So when I think about how debt can impact a family, it really grieves me. So the way we move in this business has helped me think about how (Marray) leads the family. Marray looks ahead. He knows what we need to be doing. So I have to actually follow that. That’s been the thing I have to work on, is letting him be the head.

KG: What’s been the biggest financial mistake each of you has made?

TKH: I shouldn’t have borrowed that much money for school. That money could’ve paid for all four kids to go to school, (if it had been) invested well. Or it could’ve done other things to help families, or help pour back into the kingdom.

MH: When I first graduated from Mississippi State with an engineering degree, I thought I had made it. My first job was with Toyota in northern Kentucky. I said I was miserly – that’s because my family was poor growing up. So then, having that degree, being around people with really nice (things), one day a guy my age took me to his brownstone (and) he had a really nice TV. When I saw that, I felt less-than.

As soon as I bought my duplex in Kentucky, I purchased a $3,000 TV. That was probably 25 years ago. Had I just invested that money, oh my goodness.

I wanted that thing to validate where I was, instead of allowing the Lord to say (to me), you’re valuable, not (because) of the things you’ve accumulated.

KS: My biggest financial mistake has been the consumer mindset. … If I take a look at my closet, there’s a lot of money in there, and I probably only use about 20 percent of what’s in there. Like (Marray) said, I have felt like these are things that validate me. And that’s what we’re fed with social media.

JM: I’m not sure there’s one particular thing, other than probably not being diligent enough in saving at an earlier age. Maybe some of it was a fear of failure … starting (my career) over in my late 20s when other people were getting married and having kids, and I was not. I wanted to fit in. I had to have the car. I had to be able to participate with whomever.

KG: What’s the best part of your job?

JM: The people, period.

KS: I love the educational piece of it. Recently, I have been working with some previous coworkers, teachers, and sitting down with them to go through, what does budgeting look like? I think the Lord gave me a passion for education many, many years ago, and I really believe that I’m still teaching.

TKH: The education part is one of the most exciting things for me, because I have that education background as well. But I would also say, meeting new people and building new relationships, because it continues to extend the branches of the love and the help that we can provide.

MH: I figured my path to success was going to be at a desk. But this has really pushed me to get out of my shell. It’s forced us to really engage – we engage at our church, but to be more intentional in other spaces, because we are trying to pull clients in. It’s been good from the client side, but it’s been good just to be good friends. It’s been a rich experience.

KG: If you could give one broad piece of advice for someone who’s trying to get serious about their finances, what would it be?

TKH: Don’t be afraid to actually look at your numbers and look at your debt. And begin to analyze where you are and create a plan to start getting rid of that debt.

MH: Piggybacking on that … budgeting. So many people don’t really want to be held accountable to themselves. (laughs) Dave Ramsey talks about the zero-dollar budget. Every dollar should have a place.

In addition, having an adequate emergency fund. People always want to invest – then I ask, ‘Do you have an emergency fund?’ Does it make sense for you to have money in an investment, then have a crisis, and have to pull money out of that investment?

KS: Know what you have, and know what it’s doing. I let my PERS (Public Employees’ Retirement System) retirement sit still, doing nothing, for about eight years, because I just didn’t want to think about it. I’ve got a hold of it now, thank goodness, and it’s doing something.

And know what you’re spending. Take a hard look at what you’re spending on food.

JM: You’ve got to know where you are before you know where you’re going. People spend more time planning vacations than planning their financial future. You have to have a plan in place. That’s where the advice portion of what we do, to me, is critical. You have a coach when you go to the gym. Why not have a coach help you with your finances? You can’t just throw a dart at the dartboard and expect it to work out.